July 5, 2024
Listen to our new podcast episode with Kaitlin Johnstone on the "Kindness Is" Podcast!
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Join us for an episode of the "Kindness Is" podcast with host Kaitlin Johnstone, as we delve into the inspiring journey of Emily Montgomery, founder of the HiLU movement.
In this episode, Emily shares her remarkable career shift from a lawyer and prosecutor to a founder of a pro-social app, driven by her mentor’s inspiring dedication to the service of others. Her quest for creativity and healing culminated in the development of HiLU, a prosocial app designed for sharing words of affirmation.
Key topics covered in this episode include:
Emily also discusses the importance of genuine kindness and actionable gestures in today's world, encouraging listeners to embrace the power of verbal appreciation through HiLU.
Tune in to the full episode for insights on fostering kindness and meaningful connections.
Link to Episode:
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"Note: This transcript has been provided to improve accessibility for the hearing impaired. It has been edited for clarity and readability."
Emily Montgomery [00:00:00]:
I do think that our preference and our habit of constantly texting and being in front of a screen and not using our voice is directly contributing to the loneliness epidemic.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:00:13]:
Welcome to the Kindness Is podcast presented by Kind Cotton, where we take a deep dive into the true meaning of kindness. I'm your host, co-founder of Kind Cotton, Caitlin Johnstone. Let's dive in.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:00:35]:
Hey, everyone. This week I have the honor of speaking to Emily Montgomery, who is the founder of HiLU, which is the first prosocial app for sharing and collecting words of affirmation. Now, I had done some research into what it was that Emily was doing with her app prior to this episode, but I wasn't quite expecting the emotional response that I had to her words of kindness and the ways in which you can use this app to truly connect with people and connect with our humanity. Emily calls herself a recovering attorney whose journey took a pivotal turn when she decided to leave her legal career after a transformative 600 miles walk across Spain.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:01:16]:
Inspired by her mentors who influenced her life's decision, she incorporated all of those lessons into this incredible app, aiming to make this valuable practice of affirming others accessible to everyone. The moment we connected via email, I was so intrigued by the fact that you left this, like, huge corporate position, for something that was more filling of your soul. It’s the way that I'm looking at it from an outside perspective. So I would love to hear a little bit about your journey and how you came to that decision.
Emily Montgomery [00:01:56]:
Well, it was actually sort of a ten year long story. I think a lot of my career changes have been me becoming more myself over the years. As you know, I started as a prosecutor and I never liked that I couldn't smile, or it just felt very combative. So I left that and then went into civil litigation, which was a better fit. It was a little less combative, but I felt this part in me that really wanted to be more creative.
Emily Montgomery [00:02:33]:
I ended up leaving law altogether and then becoming a chief of staff at an investment firm. I had an absolute ball doing that job. I mean, I get to organize, put on events, like make sure people had the tools that they needed to do their jobs, and it was great. It was very dynamic. But again, as I continued on in my journey and just the way that my life unfolded, I really felt this pull to really share what I had learned along the way in my healing journey. And the things that I had learned from mentors that I had.
Emily Montgomery [00:03:25]:
And you know what? You only live once, so I wanted to do the thing, so I did the things.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:03:31]:
I totally get that. I mean, it's so funny, I say all the time, if there was any sort of silver lining to the pandemic, and people who know us know that, I was very, very cautious and am for many reasons still and all of that. So I'm not trying to, like, make light of it. However, it got me to take that ginormous leap of doing Kind Cotton full time and fulfilling my dream and doing something that I am passionate about. So I totally get that.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:04:07]:
Now, along the way, you shared that you had this incredible journey across Spain that somehow kind of brought all of these connections together for you in starting your company. I'm really curious about that experience, too.
Emily Montgomery [00:04:22]:
Yeah, that was an awesome experience. I want to call it a calling to walk across Spain. I knew about it because my dad had done that journey years prior. So it's sort of in my consciousness as something that could be done. And I was really going through a time where I was just trying to figure out what the meaning of life really was. My dad had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer's at that time, so it really just put front and center. What are you doing right now that makes your life meaningful? It just made me really know that I don't have forever.
Emily Montgomery [00:05:13]:
This journey kind of bubbled to the surface in terms of, okay, this is something that I need to do, and I have to figure out how to make it work. So I made the decision to go. Once I made the decision to go, all these crazy things started happening. It was like there's a sort of force that came in that didn't want me to go. I had to figure all that out and continue to pursue it. And I'm so glad I did.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:05:47]:
Would you share maybe your favorite moment from that trip or any sort of eye opening moment that took place along your journey for you, or is there anything that comes to mind that stands out? Or was it, like, the whole experience, together, that kind of made it what it was?
Emily Montgomery [00:06:08]:
It was the whole experience, and it was day to day. While I was walking, I was recording myself voice notes, and I was inventing what became the HiLU app. I have a voice note where I'm naming it short for Hi, I love you and you can sort of hear the gravel crunching beneath my feet. Really, the theme of that journey was about how I was alone, but I was not alone.
Emily Montgomery [00:06:43]:
I was physically alone. I was walking primarily alone. I did meet a lot of wonderful people along the way, I flew over alone. It was kind of a solo journey, but I had so much support. That support really came from my friends back home who had recorded all these voice notes for me, telling me that I was on the right path and I was doing the right thing and that if I fell down in the mud and broke my leg, it was okay if I came home and they would still love me. So the combination of those kinds of voice notes and being alone, but not really alone, and being supported in that way, kind of all came together when I came home. And I put all that into the app.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:07:36]:
That's so beautiful. I mean, for anyone who has dealt with any sort of mental health, illness or not, even. We all have our moments of just needing to know that you were enough, that you were not alone, that you were seen and loved and valued for who you are. That's truly beautiful. Like, for you to have this moment of this needs to be accessible for all to hear and how I can put this out into the world is really amazing. So I thank you for your work, because I think that is such an important message.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:08:22]:
So I'm wondering if you can give us a little bit more insight as to the app and exactly what the app does and why you feel as though positive affirmations are so important to our daily practice.
Emily Montgomery [00:08:40]:
HiLU is not only an app, but it's also a movement and a practice. It's about calling people's awareness to this active practice of giving people verbal appreciation and not waiting for the special moments, not waiting for the weddings and the birthdays and, God forbid, the funerals. To say the things that you really want to say. It's about almost keeping it casual, keeping it light, but weaving it into your everyday practice.
Emily Montgomery [00:09:14]:
There's all this great research about how when we use our voice, it really helps other people, and that's how we connect. I do think that our preference and our habit of constantly texting and being in front of a screen and not using our voice is directly contributing to the loneliness epidemic. So there's all these sorts of pieces of research about how we choose the modalities that we use. HiLU is really about calling our attention to how we are communicating. Can we do it in a way that's more effective to bring our self wellness, social, emotional wellness, and bring joy and happiness to others. So the app is very simple in a technological sort of way. It allows you to record voice memos, it allows you to gather them all in one spot so that you do have, like, when you're having a gray day or you're just not really feeling grounded, you can go back to that one spot and listen to all of these wonderful things that people have to say about you.
Emily Montgomery [00:10:34]:
Honestly, it's what I needed as a teenager. It's what I needed in my twenties to really hear about myself. And that's what my wonderful mentors did for me. They told me over and over and over again until I could really hear it, that I was smart and I could do good things. And I had a meaningful contribution to this on this planet.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:11:02]:
I mean, even if you look at the rate in which positive affirmations for children have increased, I stand in front of the mirror with my daughter every single day, and she says, I am smart, I am beautiful, I am brave, I am strong, I am kind. I love my body, I love my mind. And it's so funny. I used to see these influencers post stuff like that and think, oh, my goodness, these kids are like so into this, this is great. And then when we started doing it ourselves, sometimes even at four years old, my daughter would be like, mama, why are we doing this? But now we have moments throughout the day where she takes such ownership of that and you can tell that it really makes a difference. Like, when she looks in the mirror, she smiles and sees that kindness and that beauty and that strength.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:11:59]:
I think that's something, particularly as a woman I know can be incredibly powerful and useful throughout your life, throughout all of those stages. Like you shared, I am wondering if you can share with everyone a little bit more about how the functionality actually comes into play. Is this an app where you can send these messages to other people? Is it strictly for yourself and your self love? Tell us all a little bit more about, if I'm opening it for the first time, what are all of the things that I can do?
Emily Montgomery [00:12:41]:
It's a web app, you actually go to our website and then you can download the icon onto your phone. I just want to clarify, It's not on the App Store. I do have people occasionally saying, I was looking for your app and I can't find it. So you log in and you really just hit record. You record a message.
Emily Montgomery [00:13:04]:
It's meant to be sent to someone else. I don't have it yet in a really clear manner that you can send them to yourself. You actually can, but you'll hit record. It's a giant button on the home screen, say thank you, thank you for being you, or however you want to express that to that particular person. And then you hit stop and you hit share, and you end up sending them a text message with that audio note in there, and then they have it sort of in an audio library for them.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:13:42]:
That's so awesome. So you can keep adding to this, and it can be a space in which someone can return to hear it. I'm thinking how beautiful it would be to have my parents do this for me, right? Because, oh, my goodness, you spoke about in the beginning of this podcast, just kind of coming to the realization of your own mortality. And as an only child, I have been incredibly close to my parents growing up, and I think often about the day that I'm going to have to live in this space without them. My mom once gifted me a book she always reads me the night before Christmas, every single year. It has been a tradition. I am 38 years old, and she still reads to me the night before Christmas, on Christmas Eve.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:14:36]:
And she gave me this book in which she recorded her voice and it's so great, it's so powerful. So I immediately have to get them involved in this app and have them start sending me some messages so that I can replay them. Because the thing about phones is, we lose it eventually, right? it's not going to be there, and this will be stored in this beautiful space that we can come back to over and over again.
Emily Montgomery [00:15:08]:
Yeah. I think a lot of people really connect the dots when they remember a voicemail that they had from a loved one that maybe passed away or, you know, they lost the voicemail, unfortunately. And we love those voicemails because we can hear sort of what that person was. We can almost hear their souls, if that makes sense. But the voicemails are sort of not quite it, right? Like they are saying, hey, why didn't you pick up your phone?
Emily Montgomery [00:15:41]:
Whereas what I'm encouraging people to do more often and a lot of people are doing this already. They're just not thinking about it as a practice is to send those kinds of juicy voicemails, for lack of a better word or voice memos. But tell the person, I see that you're being really brave right now, or congratulations on launching the podcast. It just brings me so much joy. And thank you so much for being in my life and just making that into a regular thing where it's directed at the person. And having your parents record all of your wonderful characteristics and why you've been a great daughter would be just the best you'll treasure forever.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:16:32]:
I've gotten emotional on a couple of podcasts. I could get emotional on all of them because every single guest that we have on, I have on because I feel connected to who you are, I feel inspired by what it is that you were doing. I feel like it truly relates to kindness in a unique way. But this is really hitting me. And I'm like, everyone, go to Emily's website right now and download this and tell someone today that you love them.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:17:07]:
I know that I talk about kindness and as it relates to equity and justice and being more than niceness.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:17:19]:
And I always make it very clear that these random acts of kindness are very important, too. I'm not taking away from sending your parents the I love you message or telling your best friend how much they mean to you by any means. I'm just also shining a light on kindness that has kind of been weaponized for many, many years. So to have you on and know that you created a space like this is just. I don't know, I feel overwhelmed with gratitude right now. I truly do. I want you to know that I'm telling you my voice message.
Emily Montgomery [00:17:58]:
I love that. I'm glad you brought up that topic, because one of the things that I love about what you do and what your brand represents is that love is an action.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:18:11]:
Love is a verb.
Emily Montgomery [00:18:13]:
There is a place in me where I sort of want to come at some of these wellness, feel good stuff. It doesn't do me a lot of good if you tell me that you love me. I feel the energy behind that, you need me or it's coming from a place of neediness or wanting to control the other person's view of yourself. You know, what does me a lot of good is that you kind of put your money where your mouth is, right? And you'll plan the event for me or you'll go out of your way or you'll send me one of these voice notes or I think your lens on that is about justice and equality and equity.
Emily Montgomery [00:19:09]:
It's an interesting topic of love and light and kindness and where does the rubber actually hit the road, right?
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:19:19]:
Oh, 100. I mean, this could be an entire other podcast, right?
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:19:26]:
It is something that's really important.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:19:30]:
Like, even when we were choosing schools for where our daughter is going. She's in preschool. There's one thing to have, let's say, like, a pride flag hanging outside the school. It's a whole nother to truly embrace all people and and put your money where your mouth is. Have scholarship programs specifically at her school for BIPOC and LGBTQ families, because we know that those groups of people have been marginalized.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:20:03]:
To have inclusive books on the shelves to really invest in that pride flag that's hanging outside of your classroom or that Black lives Matter flag that's hanging outside of the door, totally separate things. So I'm happy that you brought that up. And It really does relate to what you're doing as well. It's that intentionality behind it that makes that impact.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:20:33]:
And sometimes our intentions don't align well with our impact, and then that's the time where we need to take a step back and take ownership of that. And now I'm getting off on a tangent. Emily, I appreciate you recognizing that. Thank you so much. I want to know how people can support you, support your work, get involved, and really start this practice today, because I feel like this is not just an app. This is a meaningful practice.
Emily Montgomery [00:21:08]:
Yeah. I would say if you want to start today, record someone a voice note and tell them that you love them, if you want them to be able to keep that forever. I would go to teamhilu.com, record it there. I would never want to discourage anybody from doing the quick and easy iPhone thing. I would say it does have a tendency to get washed away in a sea of other messages and what's for dinner? And, hey, did you pick up the dry cleaning?
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:21:40]:
And it goes away. Right? Like, those voice message messages don't stay like they erase.
Emily Montgomery [00:21:47]:
You can save them in a folder if you are really diligent about it. The problem is that people are not diligent about it.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:21:57]:
It would not be my brain forgets about it.
Emily Montgomery [00:22:00]:
Right. You could potentially, if you've got a voicemail, you could upload it to Dropbox and Google Drive just to make sure. But yeah, it's about what's front top of mind.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:22:12]:
And let's make it easy.
Emily Montgomery [00:22:14]:
We have all of these psychological barriers to saying the kind thing that we don't need to make it any worse. So I would say to get involved, like go to my website, it's teamhilu.com. Subscribe to my newsletter and really just send that. Just make it quick, make it easy. Spend 60 seconds. Just think of the first person that comes to mind, somebody who could stand to hear a kind word today and just do it and get it out.
Emily Montgomery [00:22:51]:
It doesn't have to be perfect. And I will say on that note about not being perfect, all you're really needing is warmth and sincerity. That's what we're scanning for when we're listening to somebody's voice. And that's why the voice is so important. Our voice tells us who the person is and what their mental state is. And it really doesn't matter so much exactly what you say, as long as you say it with warmth and sincerity.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:23:20]:
Yeah, that's a really important point. I think that's why so often things get misconstrued in text messages or emails.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:23:28]:
Like we can't hear the person. And that's really important. So I appreciate you mentioning that part of things. Well, Emily, this would not be the Kindnesses podcast if I didn't ask you what your true definition of kindness is.
Emily Montgomery [00:23:46]:
Kindness is verbal appreciation expressed repeatedly over time and in a susstained way. I would say more generally, kindness is an action like we already spoke about. It's so important to get out of our heads and actually get that expression out there. And if we do that, and I think what I really wanna emphasize is that we can help another person see the best parts of themselves and hopefully live into those best parts of themselves if we diligently kind of remind them and speak to that higher part in them, as opposed to kind of getting tripped up in some of their more negative qualities. And we all have them, right? And we've got, there are certain angels, and I believe we can all be these kind of angels on earth where we almost metabolize that negativity. And we can just speak to the positive in a person, and I think the world will be a better place when we learn how to do that more often.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:24:57]:
That's so powerful. Thank you so much again for creating this space and for all that you do and for joining me today.
Emily Montgomery [00:25:06]:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been a great and fun conversation, which is always the best for sure.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:25:14]:
And thank you all for listening. Please go ahead and follow Emily. I'm going to list everything in the show notes as to where you can find her website, where you can connect with her on social media and just support this journey of love and kindness.
Emily Montgomery [00:25:31]:
Thank you so much.
Kaitlin Johnstone [00:25:33]:
Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Kindness is podcast. If you love it and it's adding even a little bit of value to your life, we would love, love, love if you could subscribe, rate and review so we can reach even more people login and make this world a little bit more kind.
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